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 Case 1 - George W. Bush

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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:59 pm

and as for the documents on afghanistan, i couldnt care less about them since here the topic being discussed in IRAQS INVASION, AND BUSHS "WAS CRIMES" IN IRAQ!
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:45 pm

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf
A report filled 2 years ago by the USA Senate, wich could be considered reliable interesting parts

Quote :
U) The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of “a few bad apples” acting on their own. The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees. Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority. This report is a product of the Committee’s inquiry into how those unfortunate results came about.

Seems like senior members of his staff

Quote :
(U) On February 7, 2002, President Bush signed a memorandum stating that the Third Geneva Convention did not apply to the conflict with al Qaeda and concluding that Taliban detainees were not entitled to prisoner of war status or the legal protections afforded by the Third Geneva Convention. The President’s order closed off application of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment, to al Qaeda or Taliban detainees. While the President’s order stated that, as “a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of the Geneva Conventions,” the decision to replace well established military doctrine, i.e., legal compliance with the Geneva Conventions, with a policy subject to interpretation, impacted the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.

Bush Facilitated torture


Quote :
(U) Mr. Haynes was not the only senior official considering new interrogation techniques for use against detainees. Members of the President’s Cabinet and other senior officials attended meetings in the White House where specific interrogation techniques were discussed. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who was then the National Security Advisor, said that, “in the spring of 2002, CIA sought policy approval from the National Security Council (NSC) to begin an interrogation program for high-level al-Qaida terrorists.” Secretary Rice said that she asked Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet to brief NSC Principals on the program and asked the Attorney General John Ashcroft “personally to review and confirm the legal advice prepared by the Office of Legal Counsel.” She also said that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld participated in the NSC review of CIA’s program.

Members of the Presidents Cabinet and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice attended the meeting were these techniques were approved

Quote :
Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld Approves Aggressive Techniques (U)
(U) With respect to GTMO’s October 11, 2002 request to use aggressive interrogation techniques, Mr. Haynes said that “there was a sense by the DoD Leadership that this decision was taking too long” and that Secretary Rumsfeld told his senior advisors “I need a recommendation.” On November 27, 2002, the Secretary got one. Notwithstanding the serious legal concerns raised by the military services, Mr. Haynes sent a one page memo to the Secretary, recommending that he approve all but three of the eighteen techniques in the GTMO request. Techniques such as stress positions, removal of clothing, use of phobias (such as fear of dogs), and deprivation of light and auditory stimuli were all recommended for approval.
(U) Mr. Haynes’s memo indicated that he had discussed the issue with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith, and General Myers and that he believed they concurred in his recommendation. When asked what he relied on to make his recommendation that the aggressive techniques be approved, the only written legal opinion Mr. Haynes cited was Lieutenant Colonel Beaver’s legal analysis, which senior military lawyers had considered “legally insufficient” and “woefully inadequate,” and which LTC Beaver herself had expected would be supplemented with a review by persons with greater experience than her own.
(U) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld signed Mr. Haynes’s recommendation, adding a handwritten note that referred to limits proposed in the memo on the use of stress positions: “I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
Your Secretary of Defense Legally approved torture, ANY COMMENTS?

Quote :
Conclusion 1: On February 7, 2002, President George W. Bush made a written determination that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment, did not apply to al Qaeda or Taliban detainees. Following the President’s determination, techniques such as waterboarding, nudity, and stress positions, used in SERE training to simulate tactics used by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions, were authorized for use in interrogations of detainees in U.S. custody.
Just to be rhetoric


Quote :
[size=9]Methods now used at
Guantanamo include limiting prisoners' food, denying them clothing,
subjecting them to body-cavity searches, depriving them of sleep for as
much as 96 hours and shackling them in so-called stress positions, a
military-intelligence official said. Although the interrogators consider
the methods to be humiliating and unpleasant, they don't view them as
torture, the official said.

[/size]
Does the delegate agree that the methods above metioned to be Torture?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:57 pm

first quote: that is a person's opinion, and it even says that people in the CIA changed up the laws so it was LEGAL to do what they did. oh and did i forget to mention that nowhere does it even mention bush, or him letting all of this happen, or even worst giving the orders for it? nope

second quote: i dont see where it says that bush ordered people to be torture, on the other hand, said that there would be no torture


quote three: again it does NOT say that bush ordered peole to be torture, and this once again shows that it was people that decided to do this, without George Bush's dirrect aproval, or even more orders


quote four: i am tired or having to repeat that this doesnt mention george bush anywhere, and that neowhere does he say that or give the order to torture (and btw the things listed are NOT torture, since they do not injure u severly...)


quote five: the delegate of iraq just waisted his own time for the delegate of the usa does NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT ANY OTHER THING THAN IRAQ.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:10 pm

The first quote had the delegate Read is from an official report produced by the US senate it is an official document, not an opinion a conclusion by the AMERICAN SENATE
Bush removed all LAWS that protected these individual, he said they were not under Geneva convention and so were to be subjected to their own definition of torture and denied the rights attributed under that agreement the only form of legael protection they had
Not bush but senior members of his own staff, the people directly under him that acted under his authority and as such their actions are his responsibilities
How can an entire Ministry come to conclusion and not inform the president? this is absurd, Serious dereliction of duty, facilitated the crime
The next uote is even better it appoints the conclusion the senate came to, bush legalized suspected terrorist to be tortured, he made it legal and as such inadvertently stimulated these crimes to be committed

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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:06 pm

i would like to know who wrote this, and and nowhere in any of the things deos it say that Goerge Bush ordered to torture prisoners

and yes, he removed the laws, so what? that doesnt prove that he was in favor the torture and ordered it to be done! he even said that he didnt want that, and that it wouldnt happen! its not his fault that other people did not do that.
and please dont go with the he is responsible for what they did bs, because like i said, if we were to take this into account, the delegate of the USA would not have George Bush be trailed and punished, until ALL OF THE PRESIDENTS IN THE WORLD be trailed and punished equally, for every single president has had at the VERY VERY LEAST one person that did crap during his presidency, and none have been trailed for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:07 pm

and how can it? well quite simply by happening...
and no the next quote has nothing to do with iraq, but with guantanamo, so therefore COMPLETELY irrelevant to the case being discussed.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:40 pm

Delegate the president of the USA removed the Prisoner from the Protection of Geneva, he facilitated torture he Facilitated these crimes to take place, and he failed to take appropriate methods to prevent these crimes from happening and as such he is guit
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:10 pm

No, George Bush is not "guit" as the delegate just stated for he NEVER GAVE THE ORDER TO TORTURE, and no he did not do a bad job to take appropriate methods at preventing theses crimes from happening, because he PUBLICLY said that HE WOULD NOT TORTURE any prisoners. and well as being the president of the united states, he had a lot of things to do and take care of, and so as you can imagine he did not know exaclty when one of his soldiers at the other end of the world farted, burped, shot a bullet, or torture a person. the only thing that is proven here, dear delegate is that George Bush NEVER gave orders to torture anyone.
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PostSubject: Torturers should pay.   Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:30 am

El Salvador is glad the ICC is trying George W. Bush for crimes against humanity in Iraq. In the past the USA thought they could sometimes torture people or support people that don't repect human rights and they would never have to pay. People that were abused deserve justice. No one or no country should be above the law.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:56 pm

thanks for that vital input El Salvador. OF course, it is interesting that your delegation takes this point of view when:
Quote :
Workers' human rights in El Salvador are systematically violated by employers while the government disregards or even facilitates the abuses, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.
theres that word "facilitates" again, are you saying El Salvador that you think your own country should be tried? because i absolutely agree that people that were abused desreve justice. that's why the United States of America went to war in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:00 pm

dear fellow delegate of the UK, the delegate of the USA completly agrees with what the delegate of the UK is completly just stated. el salvador is by no means anybody to be saying anything related to this subject, when what in giong on in THEIR own very country is much worst. and el salvador, if you are so convinced that George B is guilty, why dont you give us some proof that George Bush ordered there to be torture? good luck with that...
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:55 pm

“its not the americans fault that some areas were full with terrorists not wanting to cooperate with the army, and the army is not trying to get its soldiers killed, other way around, it wants them to live, thats why they conducted aerial bombings.”
What the delegate of the United State pointed out simply remembers the delegate of Iran what a Pentagon official said when the U.S. warplanes strafed the farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 25 miles north of Kandahar on October 22-23rd,killing at least 93 civilians, "the people there are dead because we wanted them dead."For what reason? For simply not believing in the same thing the American government does? For not being influenced by the western civilization media? For thinking that every nation should be equal and that the United States is JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE NATION ON THE WORLD? Of for just sympathizing with the Taliban?
In the same post the American delegate said it couldn’t understand what the Iranian delegate said. This time will be pretty simple: war on terror = terror. Easy to understand, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:55 pm

Of course that “the world is a safer place as a result”, the Americans invaded and killed the majority the Iraq population by willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health, extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly, compelling a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power, willfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement and taking of hostages. It is funny that all of these are the sub clauses of the operative clause number 2 of the Article 8 War Crimes of the Rome Statute…
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:55 pm

“Those American's who proudly fought for their country- the country that felt a legitimate threat upon them and took action- did so because they believed they were protecting America, or even the world.”
Actually should be read like this:
Those American's who proudly fought for their country- the country that felt a legitimate threat upon them and took action- did so because they, in some strange way, were proud to be Americans and believed that the men they voted to be in power taking care of America would lie to them, nor to the Congress, they believed that George W. Bush was an angel, however George W. Bush proved to be a DEVIL.

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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:56 pm

“Taliban was living in those regions for having killed over 3,000 people”, yes, the Taliban killed 3,000 people but the United States of America killed 98,170 to 107,152 civilian as a result of the conflict ( data from the Iraq Body Count project).
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:50 pm

Quote :
Those American's who proudly fought for their country- the country that felt a legitimate threat upon them and took action- did so because they, in some strange way, were proud to be Americans and believed that the men they voted to be in power taking care of America would lie to them, nor to the Congress, they believed that George W. Bush was an angel, however George W. Bush proved to be a DEVIL.
Delegate, think logically. Terror is also living under a constant looming threat that may emerge at any time. paranoia that engulfs the country. The United States of America faced a horribly frightening tragedy. Would it not be terrible then, to not do anything in protection of your country? to let them become pray to terrorism. Either way, George W. Bush will be hated. Today, he is hated by many Americans, many of the soldiers that have gone to war in vein, and by most of the world. But don't forget delegates, the Soldiers were not fighting for George W. Bush, They were fighting for America! I would hope that any person would fight for the country they belong to, and do anything they could to better it.
IS IT A LIE that al-Qaeda caused a tragedy in a populated area of the United States where many people stepped foot into the pentagon that morning, never thinking for a moment that they would be jumping off the building to escape the flames later in the day? is it a lie that the United States have been threatened ever since then either? or that, only last year, there were more attempts to bomb NYC and UK and that there were found to be more bombs on planes even. IF, delegate, the threat was not real, all these delegations could do nothing but agree with you. But the United States of America was threatened, attacked, and threatened again over and over. Sure... Let's let the Americans live in fear. Let's leave them like sitting ducks pray to death...
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:04 pm

Delegate of the USA please stop posting such nonsense as the excuse Bush did not order the torture is already repetitive and inefficient. He signed a document that stated that the suspected terrorists were not to be included under Geneva convention, this delegate could have only one reason, this removed them from any and all international protection. The fact that his main advisers new about it and participated in the meeting is enough to defend such a point. His entire government sanctioned it. The fact that he removed the Geneva protection

Quote :
Article 28
Responsibility of commanders and other superiors

In addition to other grounds of criminal responsibility under this Statute for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court:

(a) A military commander or person effectively acting as a military commander shall be criminally responsible for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court committed by forces under his or her effective command and control, or effective authority and control as the case may be, as a result of his or her failure to exercise control properly over such forces, where:

(i) That military commander or person either knew or, owing to the circumstances at the time, should have known that the forces were committing or about to commit such crimes; and

(ii) That military commander or person failed to take all necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress their commission or to submit the matter to the competent authorities for investigation and prosecution.

(b) With respect to superior and subordinate relationships not described in paragraph (a), a superior shall be criminally responsible for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court committed by subordinates under his or her effective authority and control, as a result of his or her failure to exercise control properly over such subordinates, where:

(i) The superior either knew, or consciously disregarded information which clearly indicated, that the subordinates were committing or about to commit such crimes;

(ii) The crimes concerned activities that were within the effective responsibility and control of the superior; and

(iii) The superior failed to take all necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress their commission or to submit the matter to the competent authorities for investigation and prosecution.
This is a clear implication of George Bush and the fact he failed to prevent such actions but instead passed laws to make it easier, the fact everyone but him knew and that he did nothing to stop such crimes clearly implicates him for criminal responsibility. He clearly disregarded such information as even after the media blew the whistle he continued too deny and failed to take actions against such crimes the proof being that Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib remained opens long after the leaks.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:46 pm

delegate of iraq, if the delegate says it is inefficient, why must he continue on with this and bring INEFFICIENT facts to this case? once again, i dont care about "facilitating", or "making it easier" for it is not ordering or comanding it. period.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:14 pm

dear delegate of iran... president George W. Bush did not lie to anyone, even less his own country.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:08 pm

and delegate of iran, isnt it simply so much easier to exagerate things rather than to say the actual truth and of course BOTH sides of an issue?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:13 pm

and delegate of iran why doesnt the delegate just post everything in one post instead of divinding it into three or four? ohh wait thats right, we all have to get three posts per week, so why not simply break one post into three right...?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:43 pm

recalling the events of 9)11, the criminals committed acts of air piracy when they first commandeered the airplanes and thereby violated international law. They became terrorist murderers when they targeted civilians. How is the American use of airplanes to kill civilians without trial in Pakistan to be distinguished legally from the terrorists of 9)11?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:55 pm

One of the best kept secrets of the Bushs war crimes is that thousands of children have been inprisioned, tortured and otherwise denied rights under the Geneva Conventions and related international agreements. The delegate would like to recall the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 when the childrens hospital in Kabul was bombed, its patients murdered (contrary to the Red cross convention). It is time for Bush to be held accountable for what is the most offensive of all the war crimes committed-the abuse and death of children who should never have been arrested in first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:28 am

For every terrorist that is captured 10 civilians die in the hands of the American military, the majority of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantánamo in 2002 were innocent but still were held into account and tortured because it was “politically impossible to release them” many times men end in Guantánamo not because the Americans saw anything or have any evidence, but because someone, somewhere once said that they believe these certain people are terrorist. Innocent people that spent years in prison were being hold accountable for the broader War on Terror and the small amount of terrorists involved in 9/11 “They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.” Bush said in one of his speeches, but isn’t that the illegal concept of collective punishment?
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PostSubject: Re: Case 1 - George W. Bush   Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:04 am

During Bush's presidency, the Unites States Security Council passed a resolution for the UN weapon inspector to enter in Iraq and verify if they had any possession of weapons of mass destruction and cruise missiles. The resolution 1441 passed, but the United Nation’s Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) did not find any evidence of the presence of these weapons in Iraq. The US and ICC has made in the past bias and non-fact based accusations, and are now accusing the most prestigious president Sudan ever had for war crimes, and once again, with no evidence.
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